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cryptic.scriptz
Fonero A


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 30
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 16:21    Post subject: FON board censorship Reply with quote

Moderfon: I asked a simple question, why was my post deleted?

you then sent me this pm

Quote:
From: moderfon
To: cryptic.scriptz
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 21:57
Subject: official firmware Quote message
Sorry, but we only use original firmware, with the FON features, (only).

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MSN: Moderfon@fon.com

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My name is FON, Moder-Fon.


My question was based on the "Official firmware", so again why was my post deleted?

This is one of the reasons I am migrating away from FON, FON's lack of addressing issues raised by the community and ignoring feature requests, infact, whats the point of having a forum? why not just your so called "help section".

Now, can you show me a TOS that I breached for you to remove my post?

Eagerly awaiting a logical reply.
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AustinTX
Fanatic Writer B


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 2547
Location: Austin, Texass

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 19:16    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post

Cryptic: you'll never get an answer out of him. If you want to ask questions that fon is threatened by, you can PM or email us Foneros. Smile

If you want a space to voice your feelings, where you cannot be censored, you can start your own Fon blog. Wink
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moderfon
MOD
MOD


Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 03:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Austin: "thank you" for your help, everytime is pleasure to read your reply.
I try to reply ALL the post, but sometimes is impossible.

Cryptic: I have your post (it isn´t deleted, it is store in another place), and you talk about "hack" the fonera.
(i have the complete post and I read it again)

This is the FON Official Board, we talk about the OFFICIAL HARDWARE and about the OFFICIAL FIRMWARE, we dont have space for post talking about "how hack it". this is NOT the best place for this topics.

Trying to "touch" the chilli conf, is not a "feature" in the official firmware.

You can send me an email about this, and if you like, we can talk about it.
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AustinTX
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 2547
Location: Austin, Texass

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 09:53    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post

moderfon wrote:
Austin: "thank you" for your help, everytime is pleasure to read your reply.
Once again, it is a pleasure to bask in the warmth of your support and admiration. With this encouragement, I do believe I will stay for a long time to come. Mr. Green
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Well, as Revolutions go, this one has certainly been revolting! Wink
Linus || WRT54GL @ 228Mhz || DD-WRT v24 Beta (01/15/07) std
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cryptic.scriptz
Fonero A


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 30
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

AustinTX
Quote:
Cryptic: you'll never get an answer out of him. If you want to ask questions that fon is threatened by, you can PM or email us Foneros.

If you want a space to voice your feelings, where you cannot be censored, you can start your own Fon blog.


I hear you but its rather unfortunate that the "community" has to resort to blogs or a dozen 3rd party websites just to unrestrict the crippled FON firmware, for example, I am a Bill, I want WDS, if this feature was enabled, I would be able to pull in an additional 30-50 new clients, as it stands, I currently have around 30, now I would of thought, it would be in FON's interest to generate more revenue, but due to their crippled firmware, I am losing out and so are they, if they took up my suggestion of a section for advanced users (see below) then we as a community could help FON's intern/student programmers achieve such goals.

Regards

moderfon
Quote:
Cryptic: I have your post (it isn´t deleted, it is store in another place)


Yeah I can imagine its stored in /dev/null

Quote:
and you talk about "hack" the fonera.


Yes I enquired if anyone had success in changing their chilli.conf to allow a FULLY custom page.


Quote:
This is the FON Official Board, we talk about the OFFICIAL HARDWARE and about the OFFICIAL FIRMWARE, we dont have space for post talking about "how hack it". this is NOT the best place for this topics.


You dont have space? why, is the FON forum and FON's DNS running off the same server? that must explain why DNS resolution takes ages for my clients.

Seriously, wouldnt it be more helpful to the community to have a section in the forum that allowed for such discussions with a disclaimer "FON DOES NOT SUPPORT ANY OF THE MODIFICATIONS POSTED IN THIS SECTION", then leave it up to the individual to choose if they want just the standard features or if someone felt they were capable enough to make mods themselves following guides posted by other members or by the help of the community within those sections.


User License of the FON Software

Quote:
This firmware that FON Wireless Limited is providing for your use, is a set of
programs [see below] developed under the GPL license, and is now distributed
for installation in certain WIFI Linksys router models (i.e. WRT54G and
WRT54GS).

“Firmware for the creation and administration of WIFI Access Points for the
FON Community”.

This firmware is free software. You may redistribute and/or change it according
to the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free
Software Foundation, in its current version 2
.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY
GUARANTEE: neither the implicit COMMERCIAL guarantee or without
guaranteeing the CONVENIENCE FOR PRIVATE USE. Please refer to the
GNU General Public License for more details.
You should have received a copy of the General Public License along with this
program. If this is not the case you should write to the Free Software
Foundation, Inc., in 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA.


Now what I would like to ask, is if FON WIRELESS Ltd, is restricting me from modifying programs (including their configuration files) on FON's firmware which are released under the GPL v2 license?

Regards

GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE V2

gpl-violations


Last edited by cryptic.scriptz on Thu Apr 19, 2007 13:11; edited 1 time in total
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danradu
Fonero C


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 143
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol
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moderfon
MOD
MOD


Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 460

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regards

moderfon
Quote:
Cryptic: I have your post (it isn´t deleted, it is store in another place)


Yeah I can imagine its stored in /dev/null

MODERFON: no, you are wrong. I have a private board for all post moved. (and it is NOT /dev/null, nice joke... but inexact)


Quote:
and you talk about "hack" the fonera.


Yes I enquired if anyone had success in changing their chilli.conf to allow a FULLY custom page.

MODERFON: We try that everybody use the hard/soft as FON give it. If you try to hack it, please DON´T WRITE IT HERE... Its not a nice place for it. And you will lose your guarante, may be its the same for you. I have to say it.



Quote:
This is the FON Official Board, we talk about the OFFICIAL HARDWARE and about the OFFICIAL FIRMWARE, we dont have space for post talking about "how hack it". this is NOT the best place for this topics.


You dont have space? why, is the FON forum and FON's DNS running off the same server? that must explain why DNS resolution takes ages for my clients.

MODERFON: Nice joke.... but not, I talked about "we dont like this kind of post", we dont give space to write about "how hack the fonera" or "how make a fonera clone" or "how create a Fake Fonera" ... or other things that FON dont like. It is clear ?



Seriously, wouldnt it be more helpful to the community to have a section in the forum that allowed for such discussions with a disclaimer "FON DOES NOT SUPPORT ANY OF THE MODIFICATIONS POSTED IN THIS SECTION", then leave it up to the individual to choose if they want just the standard features or if someone felt they were capable enough to make mods themselves following guides posted by other members or by the help of the community within those sections.

MODERFON: Now (in this moment) FON dont give us WDS in our Foneras, but who know the future? who know what will have the new firmware version, and it´s possible that in new version WE will have WDS, but NOW is "not now"
Again, this is the Official Board, and we talk about the official hard and official Firmware, if you want to post "how make a fon clone", please use another internet space, but not this.
I think "did you try to post in the Microsoft official board, how modify the tcp-ip stack in Vista ?" did you try it? I guess no. why ?



User License of the FON Software

Quote:
This firmware that FON Wireless Limited is providing for your use, is a set of
programs [see below] developed under the GPL license, and is now distributed
for installation in certain WIFI Linksys router models (i.e. WRT54G and
WRT54GS).

“Firmware for the creation and administration of WIFI Access Points for the
FON Community”.

This firmware is free software. You may redistribute and/or change it according
to the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free
Software Foundation, in its current version 2
.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY
GUARANTEE: neither the implicit COMMERCIAL guarantee or without
guaranteeing the CONVENIENCE FOR PRIVATE USE. Please refer to the
GNU General Public License for more details.
You should have received a copy of the General Public License along with this
program. If this is not the case you should write to the Free Software
Foundation, Inc., in 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA.


Now what I would like to ask, is if FON WIRELESS Ltd, is restricting me from modifying programs (including their configuration files) on FON's firmware which are released under the GPL v2 license?

MODERFON: I dont know it, please read the GPL v2, but if you can do it (and you wont break this license, do it)
Anyways, If FON dont like your post, it will be removed (move to a better place, for my eyes only)



Regards

GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE V2

gpl-violations[/quote]


MODERFON: Thank you, I didn´t know this URL.
gpl-violations[/quote]

_________________
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AustinTX
Fanatic Writer B


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 2547
Location: Austin, Texass

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:28    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post

moderfon wrote:
Now (in this moment) FON dont give us WDS in our Foneras, but who know the future? who know what will have the new firmware version, and it´s possible that in new version WE will have WDS, but NOW is "not now"
Yesssssss.... who knows? We'll only know when El Presidente directs his Heralds to announce the new changes, and there will be no debate or discussion before or afterwards. Fon wants nothing of the voices and visions of its "ungrateful" Foneros. Rolling Eyes
_________________
Well, as Revolutions go, this one has certainly been revolting! Wink
Linus || WRT54GL @ 228Mhz || DD-WRT v24 Beta (01/15/07) std
My background: ISP NOC Tech, DSL - ISDN - Dialup - Web Hosting
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cryptic.scriptz
Fonero A


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 30
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 15:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think "did you try to post in the Microsoft official board, how modify the tcp-ip stack in Vista ?" did you try it? I guess no. why ?


Microsoft's TCPIP stack isnt GPL'd code, whereas FON's firmware is GPL'd, did'nt you know that?.

I have nothing more to add to this post, because very good feature requests from even several months back by a variety of posters have not materialised, not a single one, all I see is more restrictive access to the router (on GPL'd software, WTF?!) and any posts with howto's or hints are quickly nulldev'd or should I say...
Quote:
moderfon: (move to a better place, for my eyes only)

so now I'm left with the feeling FON's idea of a community is not what it seem's, but FON Wireless Ltd just prefers thousands of dumb nodes that are across the world, under only their totalitarian command, with some intervention by the "hosts" AKA "Foneros" in case those nodes go down, i.e a quick reboot etc.

Anyway..

Can I have a dumb node...I mean a Fonero badge like they have those Mac'D badges? 5 stars n all please?


Have a good day/night

EOF
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AustinTX
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 2547
Location: Austin, Texass

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 15:58    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post

cryptic.scriptz wrote:
...so now I'm left with the feeling FON's idea of a community is not what it seems, but FON Wireless Ltd just prefers thousands of dumb nodes that are across the world, under only their totalitarian command...
Thousands of vending machines for Fon's overpriced services, run by volunteers who pay the electric and ISP bills with little hope of either making any money or finding a Fon hotspot to use for free. Mad
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Well, as Revolutions go, this one has certainly been revolting! Wink
Linus || WRT54GL @ 228Mhz || DD-WRT v24 Beta (01/15/07) std
My background: ISP NOC Tech, DSL - ISDN - Dialup - Web Hosting
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BennyGoldfoot
Fonero Reg


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 17:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

How I understand this issue is that the moderator on the FON message board(s) can remove any kind of posts *he does not approve of - however FON do not hinder the source code of the Fonero AP to be modified.

These are two different issues.

As another member wrote: You can start your own FON-blog or FON-forum and write about modifying your FON AP on there.
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moderfon
MOD
MOD


Joined: 21 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 18:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

as many post, the first topic was transformed in another, and another and another....

a. cryptic.scriptz try to learn how hack the fonera.

b. the post is removed (not deleted, just off line)

c. some "foneros" try to build more spots. (austin, a "very very good friend")

d. then the problem is another... gpl ? board space for talk about hacks? censorship ?

e. again Austin talk about "Mr President"....
"Fon wants nothing of the voices and visions of its "ungrateful" Foneros."
FON ask many times about "what want foneros", but FON can or can not do it.

f. the fonero opinion and DEMANDS...

g. and then the best topic
"so now I'm left with the feeling FON's idea of a community is not what it seem's, but FON Wireless Ltd just prefers thousands of dumb nodes that are across the world, under only their totalitarian command, with some intervention by the "hosts" AKA "Foneros" in case those nodes go down, i.e a quick reboot etc. "

FON is 1984 govern.... ?

h. again Austin talking again "foneros as slaves"...
Austin, again, if you dont want the FON community, please leave it or stay here but... please, dont said this things. NOBODY chained you, YOU choose to accept FON Rules.
You are not a victime...

i. dont like this board? please don't use it. do another board in another place (internet is huge!!!) but dont try to "sale" you ideas here, and show yourself like Fon Victims...

If you accept the FONERO rules, now, why you dont want to respect it ?

You choose, before (when you enter and accept FON Rules) and now (you can leave the fon community)
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AustinTX
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 2547
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 19:42    Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post

b. Who cares if you "only removed it, not -deleted- it". Why do you keep making this point, as if it makes any difference? Should I be relieved if a thief only -takes- my things, as opposed to destroying them?

c. Oh, no. You're not getting invited to my parties *that* easily!

e. "El Presidente" is the term I employ. I do not use spanish only to save you the trouble of translating. I think you understand.

What fon asks, over and over is "what, if anything, do you Foneros want?", and then shrugs and pretends it heard no reply. A mere PR stunt. It is insulting. You moderate the board; HAVE YOU NEVER NOTICED ANYONE WRITING HERE? There is nothing here other THAN discussion of what we need, how it would work, and justification for change. Other than observations of problems, long unsolved, which make Fon a painfully obvious bad choice of partners. What we want is for Fon to stop playing stupid. But I suppose it is too much to ask that they act that intelligent, given the track record.

h. I never said anything about slavery. You have a proclivity to exaggerate and distort facts whenever it suits you. This is unwise when all anyone has to do is scroll up and see what was actually said. ...wait, have you censored it allready?

WE ARE the "FON community" and that is something Fon fails to accept. The schism is that FON does not want the community which exists.

Your suggestion to abandon this place, if it is not exactly what i want, or stay, and accept what is fed to me, is unacceptable. Like those few who remain, I stay to contribute, and make this community a better place. We wish it was that this was clearly your goal as well.

I did not know that such a fine windmill as you, moderfon, could be built out of nothing but dead horses. Razz
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Well, as Revolutions go, this one has certainly been revolting! Wink
Linus || WRT54GL @ 228Mhz || DD-WRT v24 Beta (01/15/07) std
My background: ISP NOC Tech, DSL - ISDN - Dialup - Web Hosting
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